Hi There,
I would like to hear about people experience with the new Quadrifoil
Kitesurf water launching capability. I just talked to the local Wipika
distributor and he said that only an inflated sealed kite like the
Wipika will water launch in the sea were there are waves. So can the
Kitesurf be launched at sea with say waves of 1 to 1.5 m.
Regards
Gal
Hi Gal
It may sound a bit strange, but there's a big difference between
waves like swell and waves breaking such as surf.
When a valved foil is hit by a relativly "big" braking wave
(1 m + ) I assume it takes on water and doesn't relaunch, it's not the
end of the world because almost always the breaking surf is very close
to shore exept for extreme conditions (7+ Beaufort). If you have to swim
it's not very far.
For all the other conditions like small surf and smooth swell (my
experience with swell goes to 5 m) the kite just floats and can be
relaunched as easy as on flat water.
I have used the Wipika and Mosquito Pro KS and I'm totaly hooked on
the Mosquito because of the more control with four lines, the easy
starting and landing on the beach and the awsome upwind performance, no
more walking on the beach.
The waterrelaunching is very easy, even in big swell, and in the
nose-up as the more difficult nose-down position it's easily archieved
when flying the kite quadline.
some hints for kitesurfing
* When using a wakeboard, always use a kite that's very reliable with
relaunching such as a Naish or Wipika.
* Always use a floation device as if you loose your board ( happend
on time to me) and the wind drops it's a very very long swim.
* Always use a wetsuit, don't say: "hey nothing goes wrong when
surfing, so I don't need one", hypothermia is waiting for you when
paddeling the long way back to the beach.
I hope it helps
Greetings
Bart van Oers, Delft , the Netherlands
FINALLY, At long Last its HERE!! The X-Zone's how to buggy guide is
released upon the world. It has been worth the wait I assure you - over
12,000 words of informative buggy instructions from which kite, starting
to move, right up to advanced tricks and tandeming.
Check it out at the X-Zone! (http://www.x-zone.co.uk)
(on the buggy page)
-- Andy Rogers - Team X-Zone
So which are the best kites to use for kitesurfing, inflatable (Naish,
Wipika) or ram parafoil type kites. No doubt, sparless is the way to go.
The technology of both still seems like the early days of windsurfing -
the inflatable kites have poor valve systems, insufficient support to
the areas which get damaged easily like the leading edges, etc. The
parafoil type kites don't really fly well when they contain water. We
still have a long way to go.
Dirk
Hi Dirk
I disagree, the inflatables like Naish/Wipika are very well developed
and work superbly in my experience. All kites require different means
and methods to care for them properly, careless handling can damage
anything and in all my years of repairing damaged kites, the damage has
nearly always been caused by inexperience, overconfidence and
carelessness on the part of the owner.
Foils have a long way to go yet to match the safety and performance
of the inflatables IMO. The newer, higher aspect ratio inflatables have
excellent upwind ability, incredible power and wind range when flown in
4 line mode, nothing like this is available in foils. Peter Lynn C-Quads
are one of the most efficient kites available but sadly do not re-launch
from water. His new waterfoils and arch kites show a lot of potential
but are not as user friendly as the inflatables yet. I am not looking
forward to the day when an exploded waterfoil is brought in for repair,
whereas I have seen badly torn inflatables and all have been easily
repaired, even 18" long cuts in the leading edge bladder and rips
the full length of the kites chord.
Which type of kite is best is always going to be a subjective
argument and not worth entering into, use whatever you prefer and feel
comfortable with, I mostly use non re-launchable foils and the newer
high ar inflatables at the moment.
Don't wait for something "new/better" to get into
kitesurfing, all you will miss is lots of fun now!! :-)))
Cya and
Goodwinds
Steve McCormack
Dear All,
After some initial goes with my 2nd hand mountain board I discovered
a problem with my normal harness. Because I always stand left foot
forward the harness hook was positioned fine when my back was to the
wind but was not very useful for the opposite tack. After a chat with a
diving buddy who is an engineer we hatched a plan to modify the bar. The
results are in the following pictures which can be found on Sam Eatons
kite pictures page if you're reading this on rec.kites. If you are
interested (I guess that globally only 10 or so people will be
interested!) but don't have web access mail me and I'll send the pics
direct. For one-list readers the pictures are just mime attachments.
Last W/E I went down to Weston-Super-Mare. Unfortunately the wind was
rather too strong for my 26^2' Tiger so I was mainly using a 10' Flexi
to power myself. The limited time I had with the quad was promising. The
second hook was much more comfortable than the original. Swapping
between the two, and locating the second hook, was a slight problem but
that can be expected.
This message had an attached image. It has been automatically decoded
by the experimental kitepics gateway and stored at:
http://www.slack.org.uk/kitepics/bar.jpg
For kiteboarding (specifically on land with a mountainboard), I
prefer a chest harness, if anything, over my seat harnesses. On an
all-terrain board with bindings, I find that the chest harness allows
greater mobility without breaking your stance and affecting your riding
style. As you manuever the kite under power, you are forced to rotate at
the hips with a seat harness and your stance shifts, breaks at the knee
and places different turning forces on the pivot (axle/truck) point of
the board. Just my personal preference,
Ryan
What types of harnesses does everybody use for buggying. I have a
Q-harness but if the wind is really blowing I dont really wear it. With
lots of force the thing is really hard to get out of in a panic
situation. Any ideas?
I'm just the opposite - if the wind is light, I don't use it. I feel
the purpose is to relieve the pull on your arms. I also have a Q.
PCH
I used to use a chest harness (earlier model) for buggying and
skiing. It had straps that went up your chest and over your shoulders
right next to the sides of your neck. It also had a strap that went
around the chest, under the arms and connected to the over-the-shoulder
straps on the middle of the back. It worked great in low to moderate
winds, but in strong winds it would start to chaffe the sides of my
neck, and dig hard under my arms making me sore for days. This was due
to the stress not being distributed over a larger area. I have recently
switched to a Neil Pryde windsurfing seat type harness for buggying.
Very comfortable, and no problems in any wind. I think that a windsurfer
type chest harness would be preferable for skiing, but the seat type
lowers the center of pull, making me feel like I'm not being yanked out
of the buggy chest first during a gust. I was in Florida flying with the
Treasure Island Sport Kite Klub, or TISKK, and they all use seat
harnesses for buggying and kitesurfing. (Check them out at: http://members.xoom.com/tiskk
also check out Claxton Thompson's site: http://members.xoom.com/buggies
). I agree with Peter C. Hugger that strong winds are when a harness is
absolutely necessary to transfer the extra strain off your arms, and
onto your body. When you say "hard to get out of in a panic
situation", do you mean to unhook the handle line, or to take the
whole thing off? I have also added a piece of clear, flexible poly
tubing (available in most hardware stores) to the line between my
handles to make getting the line in and out of the hook easier, since it
stiffens the line, and adds a little weight. Many windsurfers and kite
boarder/surfers use this too. Hope this helps. Wishing you all choice
winds,
Eric
Peter,
How do you get out if you have to quickly? I.E. Big gust of wind
comes and is going to pull you down field if you dont give it some slack
like you normally would with your arms....
Kenny
I'm fairly large - 6'7" and 275+lbs. Little gusts of up to 50mph
or so have no effect on me..... (c8 Seriously, gusts are what the
harness is made for. I don't want to fight the kite or allow it to pull
me around by the arms. When it's hooked up to the harness, it pulls me
at my center of gravity or closer to it. This makes it so much easier to
handle gusts. When you are seated in the buggy, that pull is almost
completely translated into motive power as opposed to being somewhat
absorbed by your arms stretching. I use the Quadrifoil link line which I
think is flat rope (webbing) covered by a vinyl hose. It's quite stiff
and generally just a pull back with the arms will allow it to fall free.
It's not perfect, but I've not yet been abducted. That may be due to my
aforementioned weight or the fact that I am often tragically under
powered. In any event, I've found it quite easy to unhook whenever I
wanted and often when I don't. If things look like they are going to get
hairy - a big turn with lots of traffic, I'll unhook first. It's not as
easy to maneuver the kite around when it's tied to your waist.
PCH
DO NOT USE A HARNESS!!!!
I have seen many accidents with. Some where VERY heavy. When the wind
is very stong you cannot come out of it. The quik release lock wil not
open!!!
I've seen one that is the best but not for me. It's too risky. That
one was self made. It is a normal harnes but there is made a stuk of
metal with a pulley. Then a rope behind the pulley and that's it.
I use a belt behind my back. I like it because you kan feel the power
better and when it goes wrong it wil go away and notting happens.
Much kite pleasure!!
I would never recommend attaching yourself to the kite or the buggy
(unless you are jumping). The harnesses I am talking about have a
downward facing hook that is open on the bottom. To release yourself
from this type of harness, you pull in slightly on the handles (2 1/2 cm
at most) and the line between the handles drops out of the hook. I
searched for a good picture of one showing the hook, but couldn't find
one. I can assure you that this type of harness is used extensively
throughout the kite buggy/boarding, and windsurfing world, and is
considered quite safe. I am not sure what type of harness you are using,
but if it has a clip or loop in which you have to take a hand off of the
kite handles to operate the release, I would not recommend using it. I
am sure that some people do and have good success with them, but it
would not be a quick enough release for my tastes. Also, remember that
if you are at an angle pointing too far up wind, i.e. if the kite is off
to your side rather than at an angle in front of you, and you catch a
gust, the kite has a sideways pull, which can become very uncomfortable,
and even yank you out of the buggy. If you are ever in this situation,
steer the buggy towards the kite, to lose some speed, and tension on the
lines. If you keep going towards the kite, it should eventually fall out
of the sky, and hit the ground, because you are matching the speed of
the kite, and it should lose pull. Are you using too big a kite for the
windspeed? I was flying one day, using a 4m2 foil in 25-30 mph wind. The
kite pulled too far to the side, and not enough out at the edge of the
window. It was extremely fast, but I couldn't fly upwind enough to go
where I wanted. I switched to a 2m kite and stayed out for over five
hours, flying over the entire field---upwind, downwind, accross the
wind, you name it. Check out http://www.aka.kite.org/traction.html#kitebuggy
for more information on kite buggying tips.
Good luck, Eric
Hi fellow buggiers,
I ordered a Peter Lynn splash guard, since it was so inexpensive that
I didn't feel like building one myself. However, it's been backordered
at Vlieger Op for 2.5 months now, so I'll build one anyway.
Here's my idea:
-fabric: I got some leftovers of black and red carrington (matches
the deluxe seat :-), hopefully they don't become too much of a bag when
wet. Maybe a dacron strip at the edges
-attachments: a bungee around the center tube of the stem and 2 fixed
attachments at the side rails.
-shape: I'm a bit puzzled here. It should be wide enough to capture
the mud from the front wheel, so I was thinking starting in a point at
the stem and about 25cm (10") half way along the down tube.
However, when I make very sharp turns when going upwind for instance, my
feet almost touch the down tube, so such a splash guard would be in the
way. Anything in that area feels like it would be in the way actually.
How did you solve this?
Maybe a fender is a better option (are there buggy fenders available
btw?)
Thanx.
Use a heavy 4-6 0z material as at speed the lighter ons flap about
and send all the stuff they collect up the sides and on to you.
Take it from the front to the back of the seat. Use bungy at the
headstock and axle and velco fastenit onto the side rails.
The best shape is a triangle that starts from the headstock and runs
back to the siderail to back axle connection. A full length gaurd also
lets you insert a sleeve to take an Alloy plate if you get paranoid
about getting spiked in the arse.
Using bungy the guard moves with your leg and returns back to
position
We have a great one in the UK called the Sand Snatcher which when
used with a splash gaurd offers the ultimate in protection.
I can send you a photo of my set up if you are interested.
Andy
Herman,
Have a look in the archives a month or two back. I sent a description
of how to shape a guard and rig it on PL type forks so it keeps more
muck off your face, and tucks under the down tube a bit when you turn.
Don't worry about your feet catching - I've never noticed it happen, and
would prefer to keep sand out of my gob!
Pete
*The Kitefactory in Australia make a good one which extends under the
seat to keep most water way...Can't find their URL, sorry. Nonetheless,
I built my own because I had the materials laying around and an idle
sewing machine one day....
*Don't use kite fabric. It fades and tends to soak up water and
doesn't clean very well. We get a lot of marine junk on some of our
wilder beaches here in Australia so it is good to be able to hose the
spashguard off and not have it retain stains or smell :-) Instead of
nylon, just cut up one of those poly tarpaulins that are used to cover
cars, boats etc (they are often blue or silver in colour...). they can
be bought very cheaply from discount stores...Don't use a dacron strip
at the edge, just sew some 100lb+ dacron line inside a double hem at the
edges. This will keep it fairly strong and taut, and won't retain
junk...
*I use a loop of dacron at the stem which loops around the bottom of
the stem and over the top of the downtube and is tied at two point to
the front of the splashguard. This requires removing the front fork to
fit, although you can modifiy it to not require this.This set-up stops
the guard from moving at the front because if it the guard moves aft,
this reduces the area of coverage. I use bungies to attach the back of
the guard to the seat. This means that it doesn't interfere with the
ajustment of my seat...
*This is not a problem. The guard just crumples inwards and then
springs back out because of the bungy tension...Mine starts at the stem
and goes down to the middle of my seat where it is the same width as the
seat...Works fine...
*Chris Brent suggested a modified off-road motorbike fender a hwile
back i vaguely remember...
Paul
Hi Herman,
If you live in a country that has hills and gets snow in the winter,
you may be able to find a cheap snow sled, called a 'Crazy Carpet'. They
are roughly a metre wide x 1.5 metre long rectangles of slippery, thin
plastic. Easy to cut to suit your buggy and very inexpensive.
I nipped one of my kids' ones and had a satisfactory spray skirt
mounted on my buggy in about 10 minutes. It is mounted with bungie
'round the head stock and fastened to the frame with heavy Dacron line.
The advantage over sewn fabric spray skirts is nothing sticks to the
plastic. It is thin enough that it bends easily and has developed a
curve, so it doesn't interfere with my legs.
Steve
I want to start using a harness, and already have a windsurf style
harness, I'd like to know the best way to set up the harness line with a
kite (4-line with two handles)...Presumably you just attach either end
of the line to the tops of the handles?? Is this correct?
Is there any way of making it quick release so that if (when) I let
go of the handles, the harness line also disconnect
automatically....Presumably if I've let go of the handles (had them
ripped out of my hands), I'm pretty much out of control and would
therefore prefer not to be still attached to the kite, especially
attached via the main flying lines.
What sort of length harness line is usual?
Do you have them plastic coated as in windsurfing, or does bare rope
provide better control over the kite...As I see it, unlike windsurfing
the harness line will be moving back and forth through the harness hook
more in order to control the kite. just make loop between the tops of
the handles using 4 or 5 mm climbing line.
Buggiers seem generally unconcerned about quick releases with
handles. Seems like this carries over to most 4-line handle fliers.
maybe there are exceptions, can anybody comment?
could be from 16-24 inches depending on kite size, arm length, etc.
Smaller kites can be on short side.
Seems like buggiers prefer bare rope while ex-windsurfers invariably
use plastic coated lines. I've found that you can't assume that other
people on this group do the same thing you do and there's always a
tendency to assume that they do! This has lead to confusion in the past.
Anyway, if you use a roller (Reactor) bar, the bare line moves very
easily. It's easy to manage 4-line handles with one hand. With coated
line it's a lot harder.
Hope this helps,
Dave
Oh yes! this one has me puzzled, remember being told that lift is
generated from a wing by the longer distance the air has to flow over
the upper surface (pressure changes etc)? So just how is lift generated
by symmetrical profiles where the distance the air flows on upper and
lower surfaces is equal?
Help me!
Regards,Roger Parry.
Hoi
Remember the leading edge is not sharp but rounded.
Distance would be the same if the chord is in line with the wind
direction: if the angle of attack is 0 degrees. Then the point where the
air "splits up" is right in the middle of the leading edge (9
o'clock)
If you tilt the profile, the point where the airflow
"splits" moves towards the 8 o'clock position . It's not in
the middle anymore and the distance it travels on either side differs (8
- 12 for the upper and 8-6 for the lower part).
Hope that's clear enough..
Regards, Peter
Actually, AOA (angle of attack) has some but minimal effect here.
Foils with symetrical profiles, you will notice, also are bridled to
induce wing camber making the effective upper surface longer than the
effective lower surface, considering the relatively trapped and static
air within the camber.
AoA is critical only for a given foil profile, but only for that
profile to provide optimum lift without stall. After all, you can fly a
sheet of plywood with the right AOA and enough wind. Right? But I
wouldn't try to buggy with it. :-)
Michael L. Eason, CSSA II
Hye, i own a c-quad 2.2 and i have been using two seperate hadnles,
can anyone tell me if the handlebar makes such a difference, either it's
easier to fly with or any other remarks..
Thanks
Hi
The C-quad handlebar was designed for kitesurfing and for those who
could not persevere and learn to fly on handles without luffing the
kite. It is impossible to use for buggying and I find it limits your
"feel" for what is happening with your kite. I recommend
sticking to the handles and just limit how much you "2 line"
the kite. It is essential that the brake lines are adjusted correctly on
a c-quad to avoid the tendency to luff easy, brakes should be adjusted
so you can just reverse the kite to land from directly overhead,
backstrap or harness attachment point should be approx 30mm below where
your top lines connect to your handles, if you have Peter Lynn handles
the harness loops are already in the right place. If you need more info
I could e-mail you the instruction sheets that come with our c-quads.
Hope this helps and Goodwinds
Steve McCormack
Hi folks,
There has been a lot of talk about accuracy of bike speedometers on
buggies. Does anyone know how accurate GPS's are in the speed-measuring
department? I measured my maximum speed at 40.8 mph on the ice this
weekend, which sort of surprised me. I would have guessed my speed
wasn't much over 30, but it's hard to tell in the middle of a big lake
on smooth ice. I had the GPS in my pocket, so I wasn't able to see if it
spiked suddenly. It's a Garmin GPS 12, if you're curious. It seems to be
fairly consisitent with the speedometer in my car. I haven't tested it
against the bike speedo on my buggy yet.
Thanks,
Mark Frasier
I've got the same model. I also usually do the pocket thing which is
a bit annoying as you can't see your speed until you've finished
buggying. I've had it on in the car too and saw the same thing. The only
caveat I've heard of is that there not accurate at "low" speed
(whatever that is, I'm presuming walking pace). You'll notice that if
you stand still the GPS still says your moving slowly. This is thanks to
the error involved in the GPS signal. I've been meaning to give it to
someone with a bike speedo on there buggy and see if they're consistent.
The closest I've come is two of us side by side me with a GPS the other
with a speedo and they seemed about the same. Steve Bateman I think it
was, mentioned in rec.kites a while ago that they're very accurate for
speed measuring... don't know where he got that info from. Maybe we
could email Garmin (www.garmin.com)?
Chris
I've had a reasonable amount of contact with users of GPS systems
especially balloonists. Most seem to agree that GPS units are fairly
reliable over reasonable distances. The accuracy of GPS units in 3D
plots always used to be amusing though with balloons appearing to jump
up and down quite considerably.
Given that the accuracy of the GPS signal is/was +/- 100+ metres if
the course you are taking is under a 1km then that'd be a 10% error. The
speed would also depend on the frequency with which the GPS reciver
updated, if it updates its position every 5 seconds and the error is
-100m and then +100 metres you could be standing still and have moved
200 metres (an extreme example).
For real accuracy try DGPS :)
James
Actually, I found out that they aren't that accurate at low speeds
(less than about 15mph). Which kinda ruled out their use for a buggy
distance record (if the wind dropped off for awhile).
The best method, for official distance records, would be to use a
bike spedo to determine how many times your wheel turns round, then back
calculate the distance (using the ending circ).
-- Steve Bateman
Most of the manufacturers claim greater accuracy on normal GPS's. I'd
take this with a grain of salt though.
Yea I thought about this when I got it. I've never seen a
"stupid" reading like this though, maybe it averages?
Indeed, or try to get the US military to turn of the error :) As
someone once said "If your invading America 100m with civilian GPS
is close enough. I don't know how good the DGPS coverage is in Australia
either, and we do tend up get to somewhat remote places to buggy.
Chris
The update rate is once per second but it does do some sort of
averaging. If I step on the gas in my car the speedometer goes up faster
than the GPS.
I have noticed that if I turn on the GPS in my house my speed reading
fluctuates up to about 2 mph (standing still), but on the lake when I am
standing still it's almost always at zero. I assume it has something to
do with better reception in a large flat open area. I also notice a lot
of false zig-zaggy tracks when I'm under cover, but I haven't noticed
that out in the open.
I thought the idea was to prevent enemies from making GPS guided
missles with thru-the-doorway accuracy. But I'd like to see the
dithering turned off, too! I'll have to see if I can pull in a DGPS
beacon at the beach where I buggy this spring, but it seems unlikely
that there'd be coverage an hour inland.
I'll write a note to Garmin and see what they say about speed
accuracy.
Mark Frasier
