Having outgrown my 4 small kites (less than 50"), I'm now
considering an indoor/low wind kite that costs less than US$180. Would
appreciate any recommendations for Model and online supplier. TIA.
Victor Voo
would have to recommend the Prism Ozone. IMHO, the best ultralight in
your price range. Beautifully made, and a great performer. Widely
available across the country or in any online store.
Ken McNeill
I'd have to agree with Ken here, as well as windtrick's post. The
Ozone is just really tough to beat for versatility and price. It's a
little on the heavy side for indoor, but I fly mine indoor reasonably
often. Outside in very light wind it's just outstanding. When kites get
to the UL arena, they tend to lose the trickiness and it's sheer
efficiency that keeps them in the air. The Ozone has a little more mass
than some of the super duper ul's but it's that little bit of mass that
lets you trick it even in nothing.
If you want precision in no wind, you cant really beat the pro-dancer
SUL, but I dont think it would slide under your $180 price tag either
and that one's a tough cookie to do alot of tricks with. Staying on the
inexpensive side of 2 bills, the Nik Nak is ok, and flies well in light
to indoor. It's a little easier to keep in the air indoor than the
ozone, but it doesnt trick as easy.
Another one to watch for is the afaik yet to be released I Nak. I got
to try one of these briefly last wed at our weekly indoor fly and it
seemed promising. It handled indoor well, but seemed hesitant to flip
and wouldnt turtle indoor, but had a very nice indoor rising fade. This
one could be pretty slick, but I dont know how it does outdoor.
If you want indoor and just indoor, see if you can find an old buena
vista x4i. That little kite kicks butt indoor. If anyone has one for
sale cheap let me know. It'll do most tricks indoor including lazy
susans and rotofades. It's a bummer they dont make those anymore because
they really are great for indoor.
Anyway, to restate, I think if you're looking for an indoor/light
wind kite, the ozone is the way to go. If I had to choose again right
now, I'd buy another ozone for light/dead wind outdoor. Someone posted
about the Ozone getting line hangups and such. They must not have much
line control. I almost never get line wraps on the ozone and things dont
get stuck.
Insert standard disclaimer here. I have no reason to choose one kite
over another other than my personal preference, and my preference is to
try everything I can get my hands on.
Walt
Take a look at he Indoor Wren by Jeff Howard. Around a hundred
dollars.
Dido, Ozone is the best under $200. Runner-ups Dodd's Indoor/Outdoor
approx $165 Prism's Flashlight approx $125 HQ's Feather approx $130 -
The ones above trick better than this one, but this flies well in the
lightest winds.
WT
That would be me -- I certainly agree that these have happened a lot
less as I've improved, _but_ the fundamental problem still remains, that
the bridle tends to get caught on bits of the framing. This is without
tip wraps, tangles, or the like -- there just seems to be issues where
the bridle gets caught around the centre tee fitting, on the LE
connectors, on the wing tensioning knots at the wingtips, etc, and they
happen far more often than they do on other kites. Put the Ozone and
another kite in the same position on the ground with the lines in the
same, non-tangled, setup, and try to launch them both; chances of the
Ozone getting the lines caught on something are a lot higher than on any
other kite I've flown. (for instance, the Gemini, despite having an
amazingly complicated bridle and lots of standoffs, never has this
problem -- the lines always slide past the LE connectors/etc, no matter
how much of a mess I've got things into).
It may well be that I've just got unlucky with my particular one of
these -- the Alien I had, for instance, needed the bridle retying or it
would continually pop out of the centre tee adjustment fitting, so
there's certainly precedent for some variance in build quality
(similarly, the 3D I got only had 50% of the standoff holes punched --
easy enough to fix, of course, but still something that I wasn't
expecting to do myself. Once I'd done it, the 3D is a _lovely_ zero-wind
kite, though).
-- dan
Go for it Victor...got an Ozone about a week ago...finally got a
chance to fly it this evening...winds maybe 1 mph ..YEAH BABY! Have a 3D
and a Vapor both of which I love. But my newest favorite kite is the
Ozone. Seemed to take less effort to fly in almost zero wind than
either. Not quite as 'elegant' as the Vapor, but it does get real flat.
Also appears the easiest for throws. Do it...you won't regret it! --
...later... Steve
The Stranger Level 7 is a couple of years old at this point. Still an
ultra-radical design, but has not really become a "mainstream"
kite, in that it flies so very differently from more conventional trick
kites. Requires a very skillful pilot, and even then is considered a
challenge due to its extreme oversteer.
The most recent radical trick kites have been those that are geared
towards performing fade-based tricks, such as the lateral roll or
backspin ("rotating fade"). Since last Spring, the Benson
Gemini has been possibly the most popular of this breed, due to its
combination of extreme trick capabilities combined with well-behaved
flight characteristics. The Mullins Area51 has also gained a reputation
as a backspin-machine, as well as a number of other designs, both new
and old.
I'm sure many other people will chime in here on other recent
kites/trends.
What does 3D actually mean? I think it means that the kite flys
towards or away from the pilot, yes?
In that case, surely most kites will 3D. I have had a Phantom in a
fade, then pulled on both lines, to have them go slack as the kite flys
towards you in a downward arc. If you move forwards, the kite ends up
belly down, nose away.
The Gemini will do that, too.
True, almost all kites will from a fade, mainly in low wind.
The SL7 can generally produce a much longer glide, a bigger arc etc.
in more wind than you'd manage it with on another kite. Depending how
you tune the kite you can get more variety of glide styles.
With the SL7 you can get the kite to recover in the opposite
direction too rather than just flaring. Adjust the nose for a little
billow and the kite will roll backwards, with lots it will roll forwards
this lets you produce some weird glides. You can produce some odd
effects to such as getting the kite to hold the dead position, either in
a glide or to produce a split lateral roll: elevator up in a fade, 1/2
roll come down in the dead posn. 1/2 roll and elevator back up.
I'm not suggesting that this makes the kite any better than the
Gemini, it's just different in this respect. You've seen the SL7 video,
surely you noticed some of the bigger glides?
-- Ian Newham
I want to start with indoor, a friend has a ozone but I can't test a
geenie, are they very different? Which one is better for a beginner?
Thanks!
Tullo
Both have a fairly similar work load to fly indoors in the amount of
sweat involved. They fly differently though. The Ozone is a more stable
kite with a dynamic bridle giving good control for tricks, stalls, and
straight lines. The Geenie is less stable a kite which allows good
tricking, but has a static bridle that makes adjustment more important
for the conditions, and style of flying you intend to do. Also the
bridle has a 3rd leading edge leg which complicates adjustment of the
bridle by adding steps to the adjustment. My opinion is the Ozone is the
more versatile kite, and gives great side slides. The Geenie is easier
to get out of a fade when flying indoors, and tip stabs are easier
outdoors since the leading edges don't flex as much (They are the more
expensive wrapped rods).
WT
If you are even considering the SL7, I would highly recommend trying
to fly one *before* you buy. It quite simply does not fly like other
dual- line kites. It has an extreme amount of oversteer, and generally
requires a great deal of practice and skill to simply fly it around,
much less be able to trick well with it. Those who have taken the
(substantial) time to master it seem to find the effort worth it, as it
is capable of certain types of tricks that are almost impossible on
other trick kites. It also has a relatively narrow "optimum"
wind range, say from 8-12 mph.
The Gemini is a kite that anyone with a little flying experience can
handle. It flies as most dual-line sport kites fly, and has relatively
little oversteer, and moderate forward speed. However, it is easily
capable of every trick in the book, and then some. My Gemini is pretty
much the only radical trick kite that I fly anymore. Most people I know
who have one have been able to quickly learn tricks that had always
given them trouble in the past. The Gemini flies and tricks well in
winds from 3-15mph.
Hope that helps.
- Ron G.
Take the SL7, if you want a kite that will really take your somewhere
that other kites cannot. The Gemini is a great kite, and great fun to
fly, but at the end of the day, it is a more advanced Benson kite. So if
you OK on Benson kites, it will probably be the best that you have ever
tried.
The SL7 takes you away from any kite you ever flew and makes you
re-evaluate how you approach your flying. In many cases, it really
improved my feel for any kite, being able to detect sudden de-power and
compensate.
The key is that the Gemini, as with all Tim and Andy's creations is a
push kite. If you like to push your hands and see what happens, then
this is the kite for you.
The SL7 is a pull kite and if you can into it, it is actually more
stable and easier to read that the Gemini. Conversly, the Gemini tracks
better as a result of the twin keel layout. In the air, I actually
prefer the look of the Gemini, but the SL7 will always be the more
challenging to fly.
Andrew
These kites aren't really comparable. The Level seven is for trick
gods who've got bored, the Gemini is for norms who think tricks are cool
and wouldn't it be nice if they could do a bunch more... ( :) ).
MdeR ( Gemini owner.... )
Hi
I've got both kites but am far from a skilled pilot (practice might
help).
The Gemini is brilliant, looks good and I think flatters the pilot -
does me anyway.
The Level 7 (I've got a Rainbo) looks amazing in the sky,
particularly on a sunny day, has a very narrow wind range, pulls like
hell when the wind gets up. As for the skill required it's something
else but extremely satisfying when I (occasionally) get it right. It'll
make you look a complete beginner at first and probably more than with
any other kite make sure you're completely clear of any obstructions and
people before you launch because you will probably NOT be in control for
a while.
But as Andy Preston says in the video, stay with it, it's well worth
it particularly on those days when the wind is just right.
Mick
Gemini is very good. The kite cascades with out thought, and flips
into a fade just as easily. One of the easiest kites to rotating fade.
Tough to flapjack. Elixir is on par with the Gemini. Fades more stable.
A little more heavily built for the abuse of learning. A little larger
making it slightly easier to gracefully. These are most likely the top 2
trick kites available in all the quality sport kite shops in North
America. There are going to alot of local favorites depending on
location, but it is hard to argue with Benson, and Prism for top honors.
WT
If you're looking for a kite that just basically hands you whatever
trick you're after, I'd say buy a Gemini.
- Ron G.
hi Dave I find the Gemini a bit too radical for my middle-aged
efforts at trick flying.... darn thing over-steers too much for my
taste. My favourite trick kite just has to be the Tim Benson Box of
Tricks - try one if you can, I guarantee you'll fall in love with it!
cheers - dicky
I've got and fly both. I wont go over what other people have already
said but I'll add this re 'stability'
The SL7 is quite weird in normal flight but in a fade or a turtle it
becomes a very stable, insensitive truck. This makes Jacob's ladder type
moves, mixing up fades/turtles/backpins/suzans, much simpler.
The Gemini OTOH is stable in normal flight and will fly like a
'normal' kite however in a fade or a turtle it is a _little_ less
stable, not locking in quite as solidly. Therefore a little more care is
required so you don't inadvertently recover the kite.
That said the Gemini is a lot more user friendly, whereas the SL7 is
pretty hostile, taking every opportunity to make you look like you can't
fly :-)
Finally the SL7 will also 3D where the Gemini won't.
-- Ian Newham
Hi. I just recently found this newsgroup. I'm looking into purchasing
a new kite and was interested in the Prism Fanatic. Does anyone know
anything about this kite? I would love to hear any feedback.
Thanks.
Kevin Boden
Hey kevin,
first off is this your first kite? Or have you flown before? I bought
a Fanatic as my first kite and learned a lot from it,however. It is a
bit on the heavy side for it's size. I would cruise down to the local
park where you are from and talk to some of the people who fly in your
area. They can give you some good info on what works best in the
conditions you have. Sometimes you can score a good deal on a good used
kite or some off brand kite for a lot cheaper then what the Fanatic will
cost you. A lot of those people sell kites out of their cars too. The
Fanatic is a good kite, but I wished I had visited my local park first.
It would have saved me time and money.
Kevin, the Fanatic was my first kite (got it this last summer) and I
can't think of anything very negative to say about it. I did break a
spar or two early on--which leads me to think that, if I were to do it
all over again, I *might* get a Prism Flashback (sturdier hemp/carbon
frame for beginners, and lower price--just recently released). But the
Fanatic's great, and still very sturdy. Any problems I had could be
chocked up to carelessless and just novice stupidity; there's absolutely
no one where I live that flies, so I really had to wing it on my own
(sorry for the pun!). I never treated it very gently either, but it's
still in great shape. The Fanatic's also a good kite to grow with, and I
still enjoy flying it a lot. It seems like an excellent mix of
stability, trickability (radical edge), adjustability over a really wide
wind range, and toughness. I've flown it in practically no wind, as well
as in northern Plains near-gales. Actually, it's a blast! Oh by the way:
there are some excellent deals on Fanatics all over the place. You can
often get them used at Kites Classified, and Windchaser's, Gone with the
Wind, Forever Flying etc. often have sales. In fact, there's one or two
for sale right now at Gone with the Wind, and a couple used ones for
sale at the classifieds.
Good luck!
If you think your flying will be heavy into trick flying and that is
your goal, the Fanatic is the best trainer I can think of. The kite is
very quick to rotate on all axis, and will do the most complex tricks
that I have seen anyone fly (I live in the Northwest USA, and see Mark
Reed fly). The only parts I have heard of anyone breaking is the lower
spreaders, and that was by not putting the filled ends into the center
"t" fitting. I can imagine someone might break a leading edge,
but haven't heard of it. I use the kite as my "rough/small"
field kite and have had no problems or breakages. Several of my harder
to get tricks (Flapjacks, Rotating Fades) I got on the Fanatic first,
and still look the best on the kite. If you don't know what type of
flying you are most interested in the Flashback looks promising, but I
would suggest the Flying Wings "Alpha +" (sorry Mark). This
kite is full size, a fair pull, slower than the Fanatic. Easier to learn
on, and less money ($75). This will let you get some time on kites, and
learn most tricks if you want. Then when you know what you like i.e..
precision, tricks, power, whatever,,, then take the money you saved on
your first kite, pool it money you have been saving for your second
kite, and buy a more specialized kite.
WT I fly mostly Prism, but live far enough away that I can fly others
also.
I agree with the others. The Fanatic is a good starter kite. I also
agree that it "feels" a bit "heavy". But this can be
good for learning. While I think Prism makes GREAT kites (and a great
web site... which helped be learn many tricks) at this time I'd
recommend looking at either the Beetle or Alpha+ from Flying Wing. They
are both less expensive kites and a good starting place if your new to
kite flying. They should take a little more punishment then the Fanatic
but the Fanatic is also very sturdy.
The Pro Wren is a trick kite, and the Vapor is a ballet kite. This is
maybe an over simplification. It's like comparing a Midi to an Illusion
The Vapor does not trick quickly, but does trick. It does fade-flacs,
(slow and stately flic-flacs), slow cascades. It flies good straight
lines for competitions in the lightest winds.
The Pro Wren will trick quickly. You can bang out the tricks on this,
or slow them down. The precision capabilities are not as good as the
Vapor, but not bad for a trick kite.
Note, I think neither has the edge in a fade. Both kites are
excellent kites and there is room in the bag for both. Each fits a
slightly different niche.
WT
